Steve Urban: Two parts there. What makes you different? And what advice would you give to people on their messaging, specifically emails? Go ahead.

Jason Cutter: What makes me different is what I have realized as far as like in the sales seat or with companies and helping their sales team is that the time I spent in the desert the literal desert, but also my mental desert years ago, I realized what made me effective and special was actually my windy path.

It was actually my awkward only childness growing up in a household where my mom literally hated. Sales people. Now, some people get into sales and consulting and it's because, dad was a salesperson or mom owned a business and it's just like in their family, in their blood, two analytical parents hated salespeople.

Interesting. That's how I grew up. Like I, I repelled people. Like I literally. Up to a couple years ago, I say, I don't really like people and everyone be like, you're ridiculous. Like you obviously like people. I'm like, no, people are messy. I don't like them. That's my starting mindset. And the reason I mentioned that is because I think that's actually very valuable because when I approach conversations, cause I want to help people, I care about them, but I'm not trying to sell them.

I'm not trying to manipulate them. I don't come from that long lineage, of people who are like, Oh, that's just what you do. You talk people into it and then you move on to somebody else, but I don't. And for the longest time, I didn't have a label for it, what I call it now in the term I use is authentic persuasion, which is what the book's going to be about.

But that's what I help people do is I realize the power in myself and my effectiveness in sales, in leadership, in convincing companies what they should do or teams of people like all of that is because I'm the more authentically me I am and my hot mess background. But bringing all that into the conversation and being empathetic and caring combined with.

Proactively, positively persuading people for the right reasons when you combine those things to me, that's ultra powerful. And the persuasion piece, the best example I give people is imagine if you went into the doctor and this is what salespeople do right now. That's just not the pushy people.

We'll get to them in a second, but the order takers is imagine you go into the doctor, your leg is broken and the doctor says, your leg is broken. We need to get it fixed. Here's my card. Call me next week if you're interested. I'll send you a follow up email. Let me know if you want to set a time to talk.

No! You have a broken leg. I'm going to fix it. Any questions? This is going to hurt. And then they do it. They assume that they're the professional. You have a problem. And so a lot of salespeople are order takers because they're not assuming they're the professional. They don't see themselves as the professional.

And so what I do is focus more on empowering them to view themselves as the one who can solve their prospects problems and help them in serious ways. No matter what it is, you can be selling marketing software, doesn't matter, but it's impactful. And so you sell from that place and you can do amazing things and have amazing conversations that don't feel slimy or pushy.

So that's the first part. That's what makes me really different and the people I work with, like they get it. That's the approach that they work and you can scale that. That's really easy. You don't have to be a smooth talking natural born, which isn't a thing salesperson. You can be anybody who just.

Intends well and wants to be good at sales. And then that's all I need, right? Help that's scalable. Cause you can't put a hundred rocks, superstar, rockstar salespeople in a room together. You can't scale a company to that doesn't work. It's usually a lot of drama. It's expensive. You've got to have some, you want to have some good people, but it's tough to have a hundred or a thousand of those.

So that's the first thing. The second thing is with that frame of mind and mindset. I'm much more on the inbound lead generation side than the outbound. So I'm not a cold LinkedIn spammer, an email spammer. I send some emails, but it's really just, I know that doesn't matter. It doesn't work other than some awareness, providing content, providing value.

For the same reason, your doctor doesn't walk around on the street. Looking at people and going, Hey, I noticed that you have a little limp. Let me tell you how you can fix it. Let's set up an appointment, right? They don't, they take inbound leads. Now, obviously there's some let's say chiropractors when they're starting out, they're doing a lot of outreach, a lot of outbound, they're doing a lot of, other things to try to get.

Interest, sustainable is the inbound. And so for me, that's what I work with my companies. That's how I was raised in all of the organizations I was in was how do you generate people who actually might need your help are aware that they might have a problem. And then you can take it from there and really diagnose it and then see if you can solve it.

I like that.

Steve Urban: Okay. Very good. Excellent. Good stuff. Yeah. All right. How about these cheesy LinkedIn cold messages? What's your advice?

Jason Cutter: Don't do them. So here's where I'm really torn. I have literally like my bookkeeper and my tax person is as a result of a cold LinkedIn message, right? She sent me the message.

I was looking for a bookkeeper. The timing was right. I'm like, hey, why not? Let me get on I'm in yes mode. So I'm interested in various things that come up and so that actually worked I have a couple other service providers that actually worked and like relationships have been formed But most of the other ones, what doesn't work is when they assume I have the problem they're trying to solve.

When I get the message that says you're in business, which means you need 10 to 15 more appointments a week in order to grow your business. My thought in my head is I do. You really, you think I do? Like you have the audacity to tell me that no, those are the ones that just missed the mark instead of like the, Hey, I would like to help provide values or anything I can do.

Something again, this is the thing you wouldn't do that in real life. You wouldn't be at a party and walk up to somebody and start pitching your thing. Instantly without getting to know somebody. So stop doing it on LinkedIn.

Steve Urban: Bingo. There's my, usually my answer is the chances of you getting my attention to buy something from you without a relationship of some kind are almost zero.

They're almost zero. I don't want to say 100 percent zero, but. Yeah, that's just so slim that you're going to get my attention on that. Even if I happen to be in yes mode, I'd still call somebody I knew that I had a relationship with probably if I had a need

Jason Cutter: and it's not worth it. And there's other ways to do it.

And there's other ways to start the conversation. And if it goes that way, great. But when you're looking for, you're in taking mode and you're constantly looking for, how do you get what you want instead of like, how do you help other people? That's a tough one to win at scale. I know they say, do it like cold call and cold outreach and cold emails.

There's companies that live by that, but that doesn't feel right for me. And so that's not what I focus on.

Steve Urban: Yeah, I don't encourage it either. I think that was a good comparison there. You wouldn't go to a a conference of some kind or a meeting of some kind a gathering of people and just walk up to somebody and pitch them in the first 15 seconds, like you just wouldn't do that.

And I think of it the same way. LinkedIn is. Very similar in my opinion. Now I know people are going to listen to this episode and they're going to disagree. Give us all the reasons why it works.

Jason Cutter: And I think some of that really comes down to mindset, right? I don't think it works, so I don't do it.

So it doesn't work. Some people think, Hey, this works and it's great. And it's scalable. And I can do a thousand of those a day with some automation and I get some clients. Great. If that works for you, that's great.

Steve Urban: Let's walk now into the. book. Let's talk about the book and then we'll do the podcast at the end, if that's okay.

Tell us about the book.

Jason Cutter: So the title of the book is selling with authentic persuasion. And then the subtitle is transformed from order taker to quota breaker. So it's essentially what I was just talking about in that whole process, what I believe, but it's walking somebody through. The steps of the authentic side, the persuasion piece, and then a third section, which I call the intangibles, which is really those if you're a fan of sports, you know what intangibles are right in basketball and intangible is it's the hustle play.

It doesn't make a stat, but the fact that they dove for that ball and got the ball and then threw it to somebody else that's what makes winners win are those little plays that have no way to track them in sales. There are those things where I call them the intangibles that sales reps generally do wrong.

Order takers generally do wrong, but it's the difference maker in amazing results. And but you have to follow all of those. You can't just jump right into tangibles. You have to have the authentic piece. You have to know who you are, what you're afraid of, what's holding you back. Why you're doing it.

Why do you even want to be successful in sales? Because you're going to need that when you get punched in the face a hundred times tomorrow by a hundred people who say and so you've got to have that. And then the persuasion piece is how do you walk someone through a process like a professional in order to persuade them in the right way for both you and them?

To move the right people towards buying very good.

Steve Urban: Okay. Any advice for writing a book? Cause I know it's an ebook. Do you want to, do you want to give any, do you want to in

Jason Cutter: a physical book? It'll be a printed book. That's where it's at right now. It's in the process of getting printed and further edited two things.

One, I would say is get help, get a coach. If you're going to self publish, get a coach, like a ghost rider, they call it. That's so that's another option. There's ghostwriter if you're really bad at writing and you know that, which is fine. Like anyone who is familiar with Gary Vee talks about all the time.

He's not good at writing. He would rather like record into his phone for nine hours than have somebody just take that and make a bestseller. So that's ghostwriting and there's many ghostwriters out there. They do amazing work. That's one option. More of a coach someone who's got a framework for how to write a book.

They're going to hold you accountable. Here's the process. Here's the formula. Here's what to write in chat, especially a. fiction book where it's a business self help or nonfiction where it's like it's business related. It's focused on some kind of message, right? It's not just a story. Then you know, there's a way to help you get through that process, especially if you've never written one.

And then the other thing I would say is make sure it's a topic you love writing about and you have a lot of information about and you're willing to push through. All the barriers and all of the doubt and all of the issues and all of the other costs that come up and all of the challenges and everything that goes with anything, right?

Like building a house, like it's always going to take twice as long and cost three times as much. Writing a book can feel like that.