Jason: Hey, what's going on today's episode. I have Justin Hanover from the fitness business foundation. So he started that company. His mission is to help fitness business owners build an efficient, effective, profitable business. And recently he's. Shifted some of his focus on helping online coaches in any industry, not just health and fitness, but help them succeed and take their business to another level.

As depending on when you're listening to this, the world is in quite a transition and quite a state of flux and a lot of things are going online and there's a lot of challenges that come with it. On this episode in the conversation that Justin and I have, we talk a lot about sales. We talk a lot about mindset and success.

And yes, we're coming at it from an approach where it's about health and fitness and what he focuses on and tying it into applying to everything in sales. Specifically, make sure you check out the parts where we talk about the mindset and all of that, because it's the foundation before you can be successful, before you can use tactics, before you can use different business strategies, sales strategies, none of it matters unless you have your mindset right.

So here you go. Enjoy my conversation with Justin. Justin, welcome to the sales experience podcast.

Justin: Absolutely. Thank you, Jason. I'm excited to be here and be able to share some insights, obviously with your audience and see what we can do.

Jason: Me too. I think this is super fun. One of the things that I love in kind of my career as a podcast host in networking and just business and life is coming across different people who are in different industries that I either wouldn't think about or didn't automatically tie in.

But as I get into more sales, I see that. And so for you, your background is in the fitness business, right? In helping fitness Business owners, coaches, all of those types of people. And I think it's fascinating because when we first talked, we were just unpacking how much in that requires sales.

Justin: Oh, absolutely.

And also, from those perspectives that you mentioned, but also just being somebody actually in the industry, being the trainer, like selling to clients, I saw that's all obviously how I came up through sales and it definitely. Like I realized early on how important and impactful those communication skills are to growing my personal training business.

Cause I think originally, and I think a lot of service based people. Like have this original thought that when they first get into business, they think that their exceptional service or the plethora of certifications that they have is going to be the driving factor for people to want to do business with them.

And that's just not the case. And that was something that I struggled with early on. Cause obviously sales, it's not something you're taught. You're not taught this in school. You're not taught how to communicate with people in this way. And it was pretty much just like order taking in the beginning of just being like, Oh, okay, you want to do this?

Great. Cool. Or no, you don't want to do it. Okay. And that's that. And it was obviously, it's tough to grow a business with that type of mentality. And that's something I see a lot of. Like you said, obviously being specifically in the fitness industry, those types of people struggling with because they ride on their certifications, they ride on their knowledge, thinking that is going to be the deciding factor.

Whereas most cases, like most people don't even, they don't care. They don't know what your certifications are. That means nothing. Like you can spit off all the acronyms that you want. It just, it means nothing to them. They just want to know, can you help them? And do you understand where they're at?

Jason: I love that for so many reasons, and I've never put this together before, but as you're talking, especially about the certifications in the beginning and saying, Hey, in school, they don't teach us sales. They also don't teach finance. They don't teach life skills. They don't teach relationships. They don't teach all the things that actually matter.

Yeah, that are usable and required to be a functional, happy, successful in your own life, in your own head, right? Like actually successful in that realm. They don't teach those things. And it's fascinating because, as you're talking about the certifications, that's what school does teach you to do, is go to class, take a test, get a grade, and then display that up on the fridge and show how great of a person you are because you did well in school.

And then most people think, okay, so if I have more of Tholes, right? And I have two degrees, so I'm not saying I'm any different or better, but I hadn't thought of that before where those order taker parts, those people who just rely on the certifications, that's just what we're all taught.

And they think if I have more of those, that will sell for me.

Justin: Yeah, absolutely. And I think we can all agree that obviously the education system is not geared towards entrepreneurs. It's not geared towards the people that are going to go out and do it yourself. Because obviously there is no qualification to be an entrepreneur.

Like no one's going to ask you to like, see your entrepreneur certification. Like it just doesn't exist. So obviously going for those same qualifications that you would for somebody say, going to more traditional route, corporate route or anything like that. That's where, yeah, it can definitely affect your mindset because quickly all those things become irrelevant because it doesn't matter.

It's just can you run a good business? Can you provide a solution for people's problems? And that's it. That's all that matters.

Jason: And so there's no certification or process for entrepreneurs and business, right? You got to get a business license sometimes, but not always.

Justin: But that's just a license to be an entity

Jason: and to be taxed is usually what that is. That's that part is. Yeah, there's also no certification body or professional organization around salespeople. There is for, let's say, doctors, attorneys, teachers. There's all these other professional certifying bodies except for sales. And business leadership.

Justin: Yeah, no, and I would say like in the fitness realm too. There's no governing body that anybody has to answer to, especially you see it obviously in the nutrition side of things, it's like rampant, like with all these different, like crazy supplements or food things that come out could actually be causing a lot of harm to people.

Jason: One thing I've seen is that sales people worry about only being able to win if they use manipulation, tricks, tactics, and hard closes. So they end up struggling to close deals, make their quota, or earn the kind of money they want to make. If this sounds like your current situation, or maybe you want to make more money in sales without feeling like you're selling, then my upcoming books, let's say in this case, Authentic Persuasion will help in it.

I'm going to take you on a journey to transform from order taker to quota breaker. If you're ready to become an authentic persuader, crush your goals and create success in your sales career, then go to jasoncutter. com again. That's jasoncutter. com. And pre order the book today. the requirement to get to the part that they like the most.

At least that's how most of the people I deal with feel.

Justin: Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And I dealt with that a lot with the coaches I had on my team with my fitness business. I don't think there was one that did not have that. Mental block around sales and just kept feeling like it was wrong, but it's obviously, as we know, that's not the way to think about it anyway.

It's sales is just a conversation to serve somebody. And if you have a solution for somebody, it is your obligation to help them. That's the perspective you need to come from. But unfortunately, like you said, obviously a lot of people feel wrong about. Having like an energetic transaction when it comes to providing a service for somebody and it's unfortunate.

Obviously it can stem from different things, different experiences that people have had either with sales situations or their own, like limiting beliefs when it comes to money. Like the money beliefs is like a big thing. I think that's the bigger factor for people when it comes to struggling with sales is their poor money mindset and looking at it from a negative perspective.

Jason: So talk more about that because I think that's fascinating. I've seen that so many times with salespeople. Talk more about that, because I know you coach a lot of people on the mindset side, right? Not just about, okay, here's how you run a fitness business, here's how you sell more, here's how you increase revenue, but the mindset and fixing that part.

Justin: Yeah, there's not too many people that don't have some type of negative mindset when it comes to money that you have to reprogram in your mind. Because we're growing up, taught different things. Like money doesn't grow on trees. Like we have all these things that like our parents will say to us about money, that it conditions what you think about money.

And that obviously comes out later on. And one way it can come out is in a sales conversation. When you're asking somebody to give you money. And people feel like it shouldn't be easy. It should be hard. It shouldn't be something that money just flows to you, which that is what it is. Money flows, it flows in, it flows out.

That's where you have to get like comfortable with that. But I would see a lot of people like the coaches that work with struggle with the sales conversation around asking somebody for money when they feel like they can't pay for that service that they're asking that person to pay for. And they're trying to put like their own personal journey on the sales conversation onto that person or like projecting that onto them.

And that definitely is a huge one that I dealt with a lot, especially in the fitness industry, like with my team, my young team. So it's like a lot of 20, 20 plus year olds haven't necessarily established their career yet. So pretty much mostly any service out there, they probably can't afford. So they're always like looking at it from that perspective.

It's Oh my God, like, how could I ask this person to spend 500 a month? When I couldn't even do that. I can't do that. They actually, they feel like they're a fraud or like they shouldn't be doing this. They don't deserve to do this. So when it comes to changing your mind around money, there's definitely different ways to go about it.

But first and foremost, you have to understand, like kind of start bringing to light, like what are your limiting beliefs when it comes to money? Do you have negative beliefs when it comes to money? Do you think having money is a bad thing? Do you handle your money poorly? Those are all things you have to become aware of because then you can start addressing it and moving forward and reframing your thoughts around money.

And obviously there are different tactics around doing that from affirmations to there's different amazing books to read to re. Shape the way that you think about money and then the people you surround yourself with and how you talk about it. That's the most important thing. Like people will say things like, Oh, I want that car or I want that house.

But if you talk poor, you're going to keep yourself poor. That's the biggest thing. Like when you come across somebody who's wealthy or manages money well. They don't talk about themselves in a poor way. They don't talk about poor conditions. They talk about wealth, abundance, prosperity. That's the way that they talk.

That's the way they see themselves. So that's what they're going to keep attracting into their life. And that's the way that they're going to keep managing their money. So if you come from a poor mindset, then you're going to stay poor.

Jason: Okay, so I love this conversation because a lot of people listening to this might think what does this have to do with sales?

I just want to know how to sell better. Or maybe I'm a health and fitness coach and I just want to know how to be more effective or any sale could be business enterprise level. Doesn't matter. But this is literally so impactful and I see that so much as well with salespeople. business owners because here's the problem is most people don't like feeling like a hypocrite.

They don't want to feel like a hypocrite. They don't want to do unto others what they don't believe or want to do for themselves. So if like for me. I don't necessarily believe in buying new cars for most people. I think they can't necessarily afford it. I don't think it's the right decision. It's not a necessary thing depending on their priorities.

And so I would have a hard time if I went into car sales because would feel like a hypocrite because like I don't necessarily agree with it. It's not just a money thing. It's a it's not necessarily the thing that most people need to do. I think I would make a fantastic health and fitness coach because I strongly believe in that and I do what I can on my side.

And it's something I would be in alignment with. And then there's the money part, which is so important where. talking about this feeling of being a hypocrite is that if you're not doing it in your life, whatever that is, something similar to what you're trying to help people with, then it's never going to work.

And we're talking about the money side, right? Not Hey, I'm into fitness. So I'll be a fitness coach, but more like, where are you not willing to pay for something to improve your life? So even if you're a 20 something, you don't have a lot of money. It doesn't have to be 500 a month, but what is it in your life that you know would help you?

Maybe it's a course, maybe it's training, maybe it's coaching for yourself. And where you literally like, I can't afford that. And then turning around and having your day job be asking people to give you money to improve their life. A, you're gonna feel like a hypocrite. And B, you're gonna put out this energy to the universe and to your prospective clients.

Which is I know you should do this, but I don't really believe in it enough to ask for money because I wouldn't or couldn't pay for it. All right, that's it for my conversation with Justin. He and I have a super fun conversation. At least we're having fun. Hopefully it's resonating with anybody out there, whether you're in fitness or in some other sales role.

But hopefully it's helping you, especially with the mindset side. Make sure to come back for the other parts. Subscribe wherever you found this episode at. Subscribe, rate, share anything you can do to support this and the message of helping people be more effective in their sales role, have more confidence, be a professional, all of that will make a difference in the world.

And I appreciate it. And as always keep in mind that everything in life is sales and people remember the experience you gave them.