Jason: Welcome to another special bonus episode of the Sales Experience podcast. My name is Jason Cutter and with me today on the show I have Krista Mollion who is the chief heart officer for a company, the Sassy Method among lots of other things. In fact, she is the LinkedIn top truth teller. I thought it would be fun to have her on the show during fundamentals week to talk about some truth when it comes to sales. Of course I’ll have links for her and how to find her information, where she is online, her website, LinkedIn, all of that. Make sure to check out her podcast as well. I’ll tell you, her first podcast she did was one of the things in a tw day span that got me to move forward on this podcast and I actually mentioned that in my first podcast as well. So Krista, welcome to the sales experience podcasts.

Krista: Thank you Jason. It’s a true pleasure to be here and to talk with you about one of my favorite subjects, which is sales.

Jason: Yeah, it should be fun. We talked a bit before this and it, what’s really interesting is how you’ve been business to business, I’ve been business to consumer. But so much of this stuff and so much in sales you’ve been in marketing and sales, I had been sales with some marketing side, but there’s just so much overlap, so many common things. Obviously I call this fundamentals week. There’s so many things where it’s just literally the fundamental basics of how to do it right and how to sell. I know we could just talk for hours and hours on this topic. When I was thinking about this and when I chatted with you, I was thinking like, what the heck do too truth telling sales speaker podcasters soon to be authors talk about, and the topic I wanted to start with was the hope and urgency in the sales process.

Krista: That is such a key part of the sales process. First off, I just want to say it’s great that you’re doing all this sales trainings for people and this podcast giving away some free tips because I honestly think that every salesperson needs to listen to a podcast like this and really understand the fundamentals of sales. More particularly hope is the point of the conversation where there’s a potential to pivot. You’re pivoting away from generalizations, small talks, getting to know one another maybe. You’re going into, I think I understand this client’s pain point and I think my product may solve it or one of our products may solve it. That’s where hope is instilled in the salesperson that they have found a solution that’s going to close the deal for this person. So it’s a very exciting moment in the call.

Jason: Yeah. It can honestly, and transparently, I guess authentic is the best word for it really come once you’ve done those first steps., Like, where are you said it’s that pivot point. In these fundamental week that I’ve been covering so far, there’s rapport than empathy, rapport and trust. You’ve got to do those things where you’re uncovering their needs and wants, desires, pains, struggle, whatever that is. Then from there you can offer them hope. A lot of times people jump into the sales process and they just throw out the hope in a shotgun effect in the beginning. So the classic sales part where it’s, let me give you my sales pitch and the first couple of seconds so I can tell you what’s great and how amazing I am and how I’m going to change your life. But I haven’t actually even uncovered if it’s a good fit or if it will change your life and if there’s even enough trust there in a relationship where you’re going to believe my hope.

Krista: I think what you just said, is one of the fundamental mistakes that salespeople sometimes make, both on calls and in their messaging is by pitching your solution too early in the game you create a barrier between you and the customer. They’re on their side, which immediately draws up more of a defensive position because it’s like, Aha, this person probably wants to sell me this product. On the salesperson’s side, it creates the boundary of I have something that I’m trying to give to you. I think that in order to really close the sale, we have to remove those barriers and avoid even putting them up in the first place by creating a sense of we’re in this together so that that direct rapport with the customer is where you should start off because then it’s easy for them to start talking about themselves. Ultimately that’s what you want them to do is talk more about themselves and their problems. Because if you pitch too early and you’re like we’re selling widgets. Do you want a widget? The customers, it’s easy to do have that boundary already established and it’s a yes, no boundary. Versus what are your problems? Tell me about your problems and listening attentively and then pitching your service from the standpoint of their voice versus from your own.

Jason: Yeah, it’s funny because as cliché as it sounds, those open ended discovery, deep diving questions, will get you to the point where you’re breaking through that barrier and then you can offer that. I’m sure we’ve all met somebody who right out of the gate wants to give us advice or try to help us with something and it’s like, you don’t really know me well enough, nor do I believe you or trust you. Whether it’s an a sales buying situation or it’s just in life, it’s like, Hey, show me that you care first and that you actually understand who I am and then we can talk about the next phase and what you think I should be doing or what’s would solve my issues.

Krista: Yeah. It’s those assumptions that all customers have the same problem, just because you have a product that solves a specific problem and that’s a very big mistake. So if you’re listening to your customer without jumping to those conclusions too early, you’re going to have a much better chance of understanding their real beliefs and then repeating it back to them. That creates trust. That creates the bond. Once they have that bond established, that’s where the hope comes in because you have shown them that you care, that you’re a good listener and they’re almost waiting for you to give them advice at that point. Versus being in a defensive position of you don’t know me. Why are you offering me this? You don’t even know if that’s my problem.

Jason: I know for me, with all the sales I’ve ever done, the people I’ve managed and trained anything like that has always been for a product or service where it’s not a one size fits all. As I’ve always said, it’s like not everyone wins, it’s not magazine sales where I’m going to sell a magazine to every single person because they have a pulse. I’m trying to solve problems or help people with something. Even if it’s selling cars, not everyone should buy that car, a car or qualify. It’s really about doing the right things for people and solving their specific situation or need and helping improve their life and get them into a better place, whatever that is with or without me. Just wanting the best for people.

Krista: Exactly. Wanting the best for people. So I saw and in your previous podcast that you’ve talked a lot about authenticity. I think that it merits bringing it up in every episode because that is probably your biggest sales killer, the phoniness, the fakeness of I’m pretending to be concerned when really all I care about is getting my sales numbers this month. Caring authentically about people’s problems and saying, I’m not a sales guy or sales lady, I am a problem solver. Being proud of that that you’re bringing a solution that people actually really need. That’s what you should think about in your career instead of just thinking about a competition or a game to sell the most widgets possible.

Jason: Right. Since you brought up, maybe that is a good idea, maybe I should just pull like a Gary V type thing and just talk about authenticity in every single episode. I think people would get really tired of that. I’d probably get tired of talking about it, but you never know. What’s interesting though, and this is totally separate from the hope conversation, but it’s kind of part that has to get you there is that authenticity and being who you are and being real balanced if you’re a real professional good salesperson with being a chameleon who can also mold to the conversation and be who the other person needs you to be, the version of you for them to move forward on the solution that you have. Like if you know that you’re selling something that actually helps people or will get them from point a to point B, whatever it is. It could be TVs, if it’s solving their need or their issue or their wants, whatever that is, it doesn’t matter. If you know that it’s a good thing and it will help the right people, then you want to be authentic, but you also want to be the authentic version of you who fits with what will make them happy, reduce those barriers and get them to where they need to be. I think it’s a fine line because sales people think, well I’m just acting and this is all fake and it doesn’t matter. Again, that’s like you said, to sell the most widget to get their name on the board to get the big commission checks. Another one is to be transparent, but flexible, I guess in the conversations you’re having.

Krista: Absolutely. Figuring out how to be flexible without sounding like you have a comeback for everything they say is really a fine strategy that you have to master. It’s not easy because you can’t pretend to be a one solution for everything that they have in their lives. So it’s really about driving the conversation towards what are their bigger goals. So I wouldn’t want you to get the impression that clients should just start ranting and complaining about all their problems. It’s also about strategically driving the conversation towards what is the outcome that they want to have. So not only just continuing open-ended complaints and negativity about their problem, but once they’ve laid out their problem strategically, you have to drive them towards how to envision yourself happy with this problem solved. What would that look like for you? Because making assumptions that your product will fix it is wrong. You first have to listen to both sides, what their problem is from their words, not yours as well as what do they think their solutions are? Because that will help you really understand what the, what the client’s goals are ultimately.

Jason: That’s awesome because that’s really when you get to some of the fundamentals of the hope step, it’s tying in what they’re feeling now, whatever it is, good or bad, where they see themselves hopefully in a much better situation, transformed and improved and in one way or another. Again, it can be a consumer good, but it will help them feel better or it’s something they’ve been wanting or a goal that they have. Or it could be solving a fundamental issue they have. It could be the business to business landscape that you were in before where maybe it’s helping them with their marketing or their business, whatever that might be. But when they’re in touch with where they want to be and seeing themselves in that situation there instead of their current state and they can feel that energy. Kind of like you would also do if you went to a motivational seminar. If you went to a Tony Robbins type thing and they have you set goals and then visualize and journal and write about what that would be like if you had that house or that perfect relationship or that car or the freedom to travel, whatever that might be, and then feel that vibration and energy. Then literally nothing will stop you and get in your way of going after that. That’s fundamentally as weird as it may sound, what you want to create if you’re doing it right in the sales environment, whether it’s B to C or B to B for your prospects because in my opinion, when you do that step and then you offer them the hope and solution, then it’s nothing you have to actually close and use any sales lines for. Literally, they should be begging you for the help to get to that point.

Krista: Exactly. That’s another point you bring up about hope is once you’ve built a rapport and a connection with the client by listening to them in an authentic way, not trying to steer them into solutions that you’re selling for the sake of selling. Now you’ve also talked about what they would like the outcome to be. That’s your opportunity for hope and that’s the key moment where you can really lose a person if you’re not careful, because the last thing you want to do is twist what they’ve said to you into a solution that is absolutely not what they’ve told you. That just builds frustration and immediately you’ve broken the trust. So it’s important to listen and carefully respond and figure out from the outcome that they’re discussing, is my product the right one? And approach it from that angle versus just launching into your usual full sales spiel

Jason: I call it monologue. Yeah. It just is this long monologue stage performance for sure. Those can be effective. Those sales reps who do that, where they just get the person manipulator, persuade the person to buying their product, whether it’s the right there or not. Works short term, long term it doesn’t, cancellations, refunds, bad reviews online, all kinds of things will happen. It’s tough for that type of salesperson or that type of sales organization if that’s their strategy, to really truly be successful long-term without having to run from let’s say industry to industry and change constantly because you can only run that game so long. Like the old snake oil salesman.

Krista: Yeah. I think that one way of guaranteeing that this won’t happen is by taking notes while the customer is talking to you about the key pain points that they have brought up. Saying you’ve just expressed to me these 3 key pain points and then our product provides 2 out of 3 solutions for that. So that instantly shows that not only you’ve listened to them, but you’re also humble enough and willing enough to admit some of the shortcomings of your product. Instead of going into your full blown spiel of your sales pitch that our product is the best and our product will cure every problem you’ve ever had and ever will have. You’ve really outlined out of 3 things that you need, my product solves 2 of those things. I think that that for many salespeople listening, that may sound counterintuitive, you’re like, oh, we can never admit that we’re wrong or we shouldn’t show our weaknesses. But in today’s world of over information where we’re getting bombarded with spam right and left, and there’s a lot of snake oil being sold by people who can’t deliver or don’t have the right competencies, people are extremely weary. So now’s the time to put more emphasis on being vulnerable, being authentic, creating trust. one of the best ways to do that is to show that you’ve listened to the person and that you’re willing to admit if your product doesn’t quite fully cover what they need. The results will be amazing because someone’s going to say, wow I’m going to buy your product just because I feel now that you’ve been really transparent about it and that’s good enough, 2 out of 3 is good enough for me.

Jason: Yeah, for sure. I think that really we talked about this before this conversation here, but that goes into the longevity of them and as a client and setting the right expectations. If I tell you I can do 2 out of the 3 and I can’t do them all and you still agree to move forward, there’s no surprises. Versus what may happen if I don’t do that. If I try to tell them it’s all going to be great, give them the false hope, that’s where that can really be bad is the false hope of I can solve all of your problems and all the ways and I’m better than whatever you’ve been doing. Then you realize that it wasn’t true.

Krista: Yeah. There’s one trick that I have learned over my life that I think is very valuable for any, especially a newer salesperson. If you don’t know the answer, don’t pretend like you do. How often can we say that? You’ve definitely experienced this, where some is in their head, oh my goodness, of course we offer that. Then later on they get reprimanded by their boss who’s like you told the client what?

Jason: I’ve generally been in organizations where there’s both the sales involvement side as well as the fulfillment and the client relations side with customer service and retention, all the backend. So to get those messages from them saying this client just called in and said they were told X Y and Z. That’s always bad, it’s not worth it because then it just creates more heartache and it’s not good for the customers.

Krista: I think it’s okay to admit that you don’t know. My favorite comeback is I’ll get back to you. So I know 2 out of 3 of the things you’ve asked about. About the third, this is a new area that I’m not an expert in, but I will find someone to answer that question and I’ll definitely follow up with you. That shows that you’re committed to taking their concerns seriously, that you value them versus trying to just over promise and blow it off. Like, oh yeah, our product does that when you’re not sure.

Jason: Then when you do come back with the answers, then there’s some more validity behind it because it doesn’t feel like you’re just making stuff up all the time

Krista: And there’s no disappointment either because you never promised them in the first place. You said you’d look into it. Versus shaking your head, oh, I’m sure we do that. then later on having to admit to them that you were wrong.

Jason: So we talked about the hope side, which I think is very valuable to provide them with that kind of feeling of what their life will be like when they have your product or service as a result of you really uncovering what’s really there at the deepest level they’ll allow and that makes sense for what you’re selling. So then the next part comes actually closing them and the urgency. Now what I’ve always trained people on and focused on is on the urgency side. Obviously fortune always favors the person who’s taking action, massive action, making decisions and moving forward, especially when there’s a solution provided for a specific want or need or goal, whatever that is. Then on the flip side, like I’ve told lots of people is the urgency really you don’t want it to come from you forcing the urgency and you must buy now and limited time offer. Those things kind of help. But the urgency, if you’ve done it right to this step the urgency should be coming from the prospect who’s like, okay, how do I sign up? How do I buy this? What’s next? They should be giving you those signals instead of you having to create that false urgency.

Krista: Absolutely. So I think your point is that the hope component really ties into creating a sense of urgency in themselves where if you can create hope on a much deeper level, you have already closed the deal.

Jason: Yeah. I mean they’ve closed themselves. They know it. They’re excited for their reasons, not your reasons. Then at that point you’re just shifting to application filler, money collector for them to get what they want.

Krista: Yeah. Then there is no pitch. You’re just like, okay, so do you want to get started? Let’s get started. I’d be happy to talk to you

Jason: I’m sure you’ve seen this in all of your travels in sales as well. It’s like you have those prospects where you uncover things deeply and you create all of that and the urgencies is there and they’re begging you. Then there’s the other ones where maybe you’ve seen other salespeople do it where they’re just shallow and they’re throwing out that monologue sales pitch like you were talking about. Then next thing you know, they’re just chasing this lead endlessly trying to get them to make a buying decision because there’s just no urgency because there’s fundamentally no reason for them to see the value in it.

Krista: Exactly. So I think that’s your indicator is how well did you, did you listen to your prospect and instill hope in them that your product can solve those fundamental needs? How deep did you go? That’s another one. How hopeful do they sound in the end? Because the closing part should not be such a big deal. So if someone says to you, I have to think it over or I need some more time, then you have not met the first part sufficiently. Either you mismatched their needs to your products solutions or you didn’t go on a deeper level too put into their heads what their lives would look like with that product.

Jason: It’s interesting because I have my experiences, you have your experiences we’re on the sales side. Can you think of any sales situation where you wouldn’t want to go deep if you’re selling something that’s obviously of some value monetary or otherwise?

Krista: Absolutely none. There’s an absolutely 0 situation where you don’t want to go deep because ultimately you have to figure out that your products and services aren’t just solving the superficial problem. They’re going to change people’s lives. Some of you may shake your heads and be like, no, my product doesn’t really do that. But it does because I guarantee that no matter what you’re selling, you’re going to make someone’s life easier. If your product doesn’t, you shouldn’t be on the market. So whatever you’re selling, whether it’s a product or service, you’re trying to make someone’s life easier. You’re taking one thing off their plate or you’re taking that thing that they have on their plate and you’re making it easier for them. Ultimately that creates a better wellbeing, a better quality of life, more free time for them to dedicate to things that really matter. So it all goes back to time is money and it’s a value exchange. You’re giving them back a little bit of time and mental capacity to their day in exchange for your product or service. The more you can hit the nail on the head, the stronger the sense of urgency will be to buy your product. one of the best examples I’d like to share was is 4 Welk Resorts, which is a timeshare company and they’re notorious for their sales. So they get you into a sales pitch. They say it’s a one hour presentation, they have some exchanges for free that they’ll give you. Maybe they’ll give you 2 nights in one of their resorts or a free lunch, or even sometimes tickets to go to a show or something local. So a lot of people have strong enough insensitive to say, why not let me go do a sales pitch with them.

Let’s see how it goes. I was really impressed by the Welk Resort sales tactics that I observed. They actually showed a video of an older couple who was on a cruise ship and they show the woman and the man looking out over this beautiful tropical ocean from the cruise ship itself. Then they zoom out and they show that the man is in a wheelchair and he has an oxygen tank attached to him. The message underneath was, why wait? We always talk about having vacation later in life when Welk Resorts offers you annual membership that you can go to these beautiful destination. Every year you have no excuse not to take your family on a paid vacation because we’ve already arranged that for you. You just call us up and you say, I’m a Welk member and yeah, we’ll get the dates set up and here’s all the beautiful places you can go to. We have partners. So there’s almost unlimited options that we can offer you. We have cruise ships and we have hotels and we have resorts and we have apartments. So it’s like the sky’s the limit. But the main thing that got people was at the end when they saw that poor man in the wheelchair and they looked around at their loved ones and said, that could be me. I better buy this now and start going on vacation today versus waiting until I finally made it on the cruise ship when I’m already not able to fully function and enjoy it.

Jason: There’s your urgency for sure.

Krista: So maybe your product isn’t that extreme, but I can guarantee that there is a hook. There is something that you’re helping people with that completely changes their lives for the better in one small way or one big way.

Jason: When we’re talking about that urgency step, that’s interesting because if you contrast that story of the timeshare versus what people experience or the stories about it where it’s a hard sell pitch and it’s like 5 layers of people you have to get through if you actually want to leave and they’ll keep you there for hours and hours and hours. Versus here’s a video, here’s what you could be getting. Now create your own urgency like I was talking about of why you want it for you and why you want to sign up instead of us using tactics. Because as a salesperson, if you can have the prospect have their hope and their urgency for why they want it for them, then there is a lot less. There’s never none because there’s always some kind of buyer’s remorse, thinking about it and questioning. It’s what we all do. But that 2:00 AM panic that will happen the day after they buy from you will not be there at the same level because they did it for their reasons and not your reasons.

Krista: Yeah. one of the other sales tactics they used was to have the prospect when you sit down with your sales rep is they gave you a paper and they say, can you write down the three main reasons that you like to go on vacation? That’s how they start their sales pitch. Then they look at the paper and they start talking about those 3 reasons. So they’re already positioning themselves on your pain points and of course they already have a solution. Welk resorts as one of the best examples I can imagine. So I’m just giving that out there because it really showcases all the things we’ve just discussed about giving a person hope and then creating their own sense of urgency versus imposing one on them. Of course throwing in some incentives helps too by saying today if you sign up, we are giving away an extra, a bonus or giving an extra discount. But you shouldn’t do that too early either. You should wait until the person is already scratching their head, looking at their spouse or you can hear that they’re really thinking it over. That’s when you throw it out there. So wait

Jason: Just a little bit of a punch

Krista: Yeah just wait a little. And by the way, it should be a by the way kind of thing versus did you know you’re going to get to get a discount, hurry up. That’s when people get even more on their guard and their defensive comes up.

Jason: This whole urgency side is interesting because I’ve had so many reps were they just don’t get it. Like you said a little bit ago where everything you did up unto that point in the conversation or conversations has led to that moment. So if they say, I have to think about it or I’m not sure, or let’s do this in 6 months. That right there is just the outward symptom, but what happened is everything before then that led up to that. Unless your sales cycle is, everyone needs six months and it’s never the right time, then that’s something about your product or service or your sales process. But if there are people who will make same day decisions or short decisions, within a matter of days then anybody who doesn’t means you missed an opportunity.

Krista: Exactly. I fully agree. So it’s just a validation that you have missed something in the earlier process of the sales call.

Jason: Yeah. Otherwise they should be basically begging you for the solution to improve their lives, whatever it is. Maybe even that vacation so that they can take that forced vacation every year, whether they like it or not so they can get away and have some time.

Krista: I know. Can you imagine you have to convince people beautiful vacation?

Jason: Yes. We talked about that earlier offline. Yes. Yeah. There’s some people out there that don’t take vacations.

Krista: Absolutely. I think that’s a beautiful cop topic for one of your upcoming podcast if you haven’t talked about that already. I think while putting in their heads that visualization about the hope. The hope goes back to putting into the customer’s head this picture of what it would be like once they have this product and the more vividly they can visualize that, the easier it will be to close the deal.

Jason: The more real it is, the more it feels, they can feel it, vibrate it

Krista: But that wasn’t the topic. The topic that I’m thinking was pivots. Once you get to that point where there’s that dreaded sentence, I need to think it over, I need more time. Once you hear that dreaded death sentence for your sales call, is there any possible save or are we done? I think that could be such a very important topic to talk about if it’s even possible at that point to try to save it. How do you know if there is even a remote possibility? Has anyone ever done it? I would love to hear from people who have I have an actual example that that happened to me and I was still able to close the sale on the phone on the same call

Jason: That’s great. That will definitely be a whole other show I will either we can do together, I might just release on my own if it fits in. But yes, there is a way to recover those. Yes, there is a way to still help them in the buying situation. And yes, I have many examples from myself and from others where it works, especially in the business to consumer. It’s really about when you hear that the short answer is take charge as the professional, realize that you messed up, make sure you share with them that you realize that you messed up because your goal is to actually help them and then go back to digging deep to go through those initial steps. Like the questions, discovery, the empathy, the trust and then the hope and try to find that again and dig deeper. Sometimes the rep didn’t do anything wrong. Sometimes it’s just a function of the person was so closed off. Maybe because of past experiences, bad experiences with salespeople or buying something. Where it’s going to be tough and you’re going to have to go through the process several times to dig deep enough where they want to do it. Sometimes the reps messed up and you might not be able to recover. So yes, there are ways. I used to train people all the time on when you get that, here’s what you say, here’s how you handle it. Honestly, the transparent thing like I just mentioned, is to take a lot of responsibility. It’s hey, this is my job. I messed up because I know that you need this help. If it’s something you need to think about, then that means I did something wrong and then you lead and other stuff. That’s the basic paraphrasing of it.

Krista: Absolutely. I love it. I’m so happy you’re doing this podcast because you really can help a lot of people save those sales calls. You’re providing value and your one00% convinced that the value that your product offers is something that can help the person

Jason: That’s the key.

Krista: That’s the key. It’s like you’ve determined that they are qualified because during the call there is a potential that you determine that they actually need a different product and that’s a different, that’s another topic as well. But the chances are usually quite small. So usually you’ve got the right person and they need your product. We’re going to assume that. Keeping that hope alive that your product is really the solution and then convincing them it should come from them. They have to convince themselves. So the more you can stay in that realm and get it done the right way, then the easier it will be to close. Yeah.

Jason: Yeah. I think that’s a great place to stop with the keeping hope alive. Krista, I appreciate you coming on here. This has been super fun. I feel like we could keep talking for long periods of time and probably should do this again as well.

Krista: Lovely. Jason, you and I happen to be not that far away from one another, so I’d love to invite you down here to San Francisco for the right business event to speak about sales.

Jason: That would be great. one thing that didn’t get coordinated for this, but I think for the next one, maybe something on your podcast or even on mine is get together and do a video version and meet and chat and record it and just share all of our different diverse knowledge with everybody.

Krista: Absolutely. I love it and thank you so much again for having me, Jason. I honestly think you’re doing a great thing for salespeople all over. This podcast is going to change a lot of people’s tactics for the better and get rid of bad sales tactics. Thank you.

Jason: For everyone listening make sure to check out the show notes. I’m going to get all of the links from Krista where you can find her on LinkedIn, YouTube, just everywhere that she’s at producing content, her podcast, the videos that she’s making. I’m also going to get a transcript available for this so you can reread the conversation, highlight, pull out the gems that you heard. Obviously, make sure you subscribe, download the show, iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, Sound Cloud, Google play music, Castor, and the cutter consulting group website.

Make sure to share it with your fellow salespeople. As Krista said, and it was an unpaid endorsement, which I appreciate share this with anyone that you know of is in sales, sales management. Nothing would make me happier than having this content spreading through the sales community and making a big impact. But until next time, always remember that everything in life is sales and people remember the experience you gave them.